High Agency

Mo Dhaliwal 00:13

While AI and electric cars grab headlines, a profound shift is happening beneath the surface of our energy landscape. This year, 2025, is the first time that investments in clean energy technology will surpass upstream oil and gas investments. It's a watershed moment that few predicted would come so soon.Now, behind this transition lies a perfect storm of innovation and necessity. Solar photovoltaics now count for half of all clean tech investments while a new wave of power-hungry industries is creating unprecedented demand. Data centers alone, fueled by this AI revolution, are requiring an additional 44 gigawatts by 2030. That's enough to power millions of homes. But this isn't just about building more solar farms and wind turbines. The race is on to develop technologies that address this sort of Achilles heel of renewable energy. It's irregular and intermittent in nature. So green hydrogen, long-duration energy storage, and AI-driven grid optimization are moving from experimental to essential as our energy systems transform. So today, we're joined by Mark Rabin, the visionary founder and board member of Portable Electric, which is pioneering mobile renewable power solutions since 2015. Now, with over 23 years in the energy industry, he's transformed Portable Electric into a global leader. Mark holds advanced degrees in earth sciences, energy economics, and an MBA in technology and innovation. He's currently serving as president of Carbon IP, and he's developing battery-grade graphite from trees and continues consulting and advising early-stage startups. He's a passionate climate tech advocate. Mark also co-hosts the tie-in podcast, which is discussing sustainability and innovation while mentoring emerging leaders in the clean energy ecosystem. Mark, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I mean, your background and education, obviously very underwhelming. Obviously, you're not a high achiever at all. But before we kind of get into your work, Portable Electric, Carbon IP, the work that you're doing now, I'm always really curious about why people set out on a mission. And I don't there's a theme to your work and your interests from your education to what you've done to this point. So it's seeming like you're on a mission. So I'm really interested to learn, obviously, about what brought you to this point in the companies you've developed and the work that you're doing. But before that, I'd be really curious to hear about when it dawned on you that this is an important mission. 

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Mark Rabin 02:54

It was all an accident, just to be clear. Like anything, right? I mean, you know, we start out with this like vision of like, I'm going to be over here and this is what's going to happen. And then you're like, oh, okay, well, I've got to do this for some time.And then I've got to like struggle a little bit. Then I've got to go here. So I started off as a geologist in the oil business. And you know, it's like, I always joke that like- That wasn't in your bio at all. Yeah. And I was like, everything I learned about the earth, I actually learned from being a petroleum geologist, which is kind of interesting, right? It's kind of weird, but I sort of like learned how to understand the earth and learned how to like building an earth whisperer, you know, listen to the earth and also understand earth processes. But it was in the dark northern BC woods, drilling these oil and gas wells that I fell in love with the energy transition.And this is now, we're talking early 2000s here, right? So it's a long time. And I started to read all these books on the end of oil and the hydrogen economy and renewables and what was going on with the planet around us. I mean, cause that's the biggest thing, right? I mean, if we just look around, we can see that things are sort of out of balance. And then even humanity here on the planet, we're all sort of out of balance. So I started going down that rabbit hole while I was in this oil rigs. And that's when I was like, okay, my passion wasn't being a geologist, but then I realized I was like, oh wait, this has sort of given me the key to understanding the next phase of where we're going from an energy perspective.I started calling up all the top energy minds in Canada. This is early days. And they were like, you have to leave Canada to study energy. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And so that's when I found the top energy Institute in Scotland, it was actually in Europe. And it was called the Center for Energy, Petroleum, Mineral Law and Policy at the University of Dundee. And I was like, great, I'm in, let's go. Sold everything and did that. And that's what sort of brought me into this, into this sort of new awareness of where we're going from an energy economics perspective.And I loved every minute of it. You know, you know, when you're in those moments where it's like everything is flowing perfectly right. And there's, there's no resistance. That was one of those moments. So that's sort of what, what kept me on that, started me on that path. But the economy tanked in 2008. And I actually had went back to the oil business for five more years. And so it was a bit of like a rough adjustment, but then I also was just like, look, I'm all in. I know where it's going now. It's a long game as kind of your intro. Like this is, this isn't, we're not at the like middle point of an energy transition here. We're actually at the very beginning fart of changing our entire global energy infrastructure. 

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Mark Rabin

06:01

So I was like, okay, I consoled myself in that, stuck it out for five more years. That's when I, that's when I like, I was like, I got to get out of here 2013.And that's when I went and did my MBA and focused on energy technology and information technology. And actually my first business out of that MBA was doing energy in Africa. And it was in South Africa, in Namibia. And we were doing these little hybrid solar generators, like little power systems. And that's sort of where I set the sort of the wheels in motion for what was to come. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 06:37

Yeah, so you said in 2013, you just felt like you had to get out of there. What was the motivation at that point? 

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Mark Rabin

06:44

my heart and soul just knew that that my time was done with my work in the oil business. And I knew it from the very beginning, but I learned as I sort of matured that I'm like, oh, here's a spigot with cash flowing out of it. And if I wanted to achieve what I wanted to achieve, like I was like, okay, I need to figure out how to work the system. And so for me, that was me working the system, is like learning how to work the banking system, how to make money, how to show up every day and look good and be a part of a team.I've only had one real job in my life, like full-time job. That was when I was in the oil business for five years. Yeah, it's been an interesting journey though, because what's interesting now is all of the energy folks that I'm interfacing with that back in the day are all now towing into the world of renewables and off-grid clean energy and different diversifying. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 07:48

Well, I mean, it's a necessity. It's apparent where the world is headed. It's apparent where the transition is headed. So I think it's very much a practical, you know, still a very capitalist decision to get out ahead of it.I'm not sure if he was like from the Saudi family or like a minister, but I remember there was some member of OPEC years ago that made this comment. He said that the Stone Age didn't end due to the shortage of stones. Yeah. And it was, I mean, such a profound statement to make, but he was speaking to the oil transition. He's like, we're not going to run out of oil. The transition will happen beforehand because it has to. Right. I'm a little curious about when you talked about being a geologist and at that point kind of realizing that you had a connection to this thing. Like was it from a connection to the land? Was it from a connection of actually almost on some level, like interfacing with the earth in a really deep and interesting way? Like, what was it that kind of created that connection at first? The reason I'm asking that question is, you know, there's a bit of an interesting phenomenon where a lot of people don't know this, but here in B.C., there's a number of different organizations that work on conservation of salmon habitats. And you wouldn't think this because it's almost counterintuitive, but they were all founded by fishermen, right? People that actually, you know, fish for salmon and therefore had a really intimate connection with these spaces, therefore understood kind of how sacred they were and then wanted to protect them. Right. Yeah. But it's counterintuitive. Nobody would think that it would be a fisher that would want to go out. 

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Mark Rabin 09:27

Well, it's just like farmers are seeing the effects of climate change far before anybody. For me, it was a connection to humanity, not the land. The land will be fine in the long run. It's us.Once it shakes off the people. It's us that won't be okay. And something I've always said is sort of like any civilization intent on surviving would not be doing what we're doing. Holy shit. That makes no fucking sense. Part of my French, you know? There's no way, right? Everybody knows. Like that's that, you know, it's like the gigs up. Everybody knows. It's just, you know, we've got, you know, competing interests that are just trying to, you know, just continuing to hold on to power. But like for me, it was about, about any advanced civilization needs to be doing something differently if we're going to survive on this planet, right? Or if we were to be visited, maybe they're already here, but by, you know, some extraterrestrials from somewhere that could be part of us wherever they wouldn't be, you know, burning rocket fuel, right? That's not how they're getting around. So I'm just like, that's what got me really interested in this. And also that we have the technology here to do it today, right? There's always that saying where people are like, well, the technology is not good enough. Like, no, no, it's, it's pretty good. It's good enough. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 10:55

Yeah, no, I mean, there's breakthroughs, it sounds like, that are showing up all the time. And was there any specific breakthrough that kind of led to the founding of portable electric?Or was that more you heading out in a direction and saying, okay, we have to do this regardless, and we'll figure it out on the way. 

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Mark Rabin 11:14

So a couple of things, the first one is part of my also background is parties, throwing events. Oh, right. We have that in common. I used to do that. I love it. Like I love creating community, I love bringing people together.So it's the first thing that you need when you're doing an event that's, you know, sound and lights and music, all right? And how do you power that? So you have a generator or so if you go to festivals or if you know Burning Man, for example, Burning Man, there's a generator, literally every 15 feet. I don't know. There's literally a generator everywhere you go and they're like buzzing and they're so inefficient and making noise and polluting. And so that's kind of what I've always, I was already in that world. And then from the previous business, it's called Zolair doing these little portable power systems. Because I actually got to observe how humans wanted to move a little power system around. And so I sort of connected that with these portable generators that I already been used to using and I was like, okay, wow, I want to try to rent an industrial grade renewable power system. Like I don't want to rent a generator, I want to rent a silent generator, a battery system and I couldn't do it. So that's when I was like, okay. The technology exists for me to create a product. So it wasn't, the innovation wasn't in, you know, the battery technology that I was doing or anything like that. It was in how I was packaging this and how I was presenting it and how you, as a user of the product, wanted to move it around. So hence, portable, electric. So it was around like just really understanding humanity and humans and how we want to do things. Like this is a human problem. This is not an earth problem. This is not, none of this stuff is like, it's all, it's our own creation and we're going to have to figure out a way forward through it. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 13:13

I wasn't expecting that. I didn't think that the initial aha moment would be around parties and wanting to create portable energy supplies for them.Because I actually feel that really hard, because I did a bunch of festival production years ago. And outdoor events, similarly, tying into power would be difficult. And if we ever want to do something interesting or creative, big, noisy, gas-powered things, we're trying to tuck them away and hide them somewhere so that buzzing noise isn't bothering us. But I didn't have the wherewithal or, I guess, the education to go away from that and say, oh, I need to create a power device and create a market. 

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Mark Rabin 13:49

for that. I mean this is the thing though, 99% of innovation comes from something that you're doing, right? That you know, right? Very little as we are sitting in the bathtub and you're like I'm gonna invent this thing. So that's kind of what what came, what happened, but I'm also just standing on the shoulder of giants. I mean there's so many amazing innovators in the space and I'm very fortunate that a lot of them are my friends.So it's very collaborative and very open and but the entertainment industry is is an amazing beachhead for so many things and that's what happened. We latched on to the entertainment industry, we were doing events and festivals and then major motion picture Hollywood film sort of showing up. And so that's why everybody is quick to dismiss entertainment as like oh it's a small market. Oh it's a it's you know because that's what everybody wants. You know in startup land everybody's like I need a billion-dollar market minimum and it has to be this big and but who's gonna pay for it and and who wants it? Because if no one wants it doesn't matter how big the market is. So so that's where we started the beachhead and you know what to this day it's still the beachhead.Like for any of the other sort of businesses that I'm in the process of incubating and and starting. You start with entertainment first? Entertainment. Really? Yeah it's it's kind of a you know

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Mo Dhaliwal 15:08

I haven't heard that or read that or seen that in any like startup blog post anywhere. 

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Mark Rabin 15:13

That's because it's it's an insular world, right? You know, I mean you can't just throw up and start throwing a festival or an event because people are gonna be like who are you? I'm not showing up. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 15:21

Yeah, you got to build community around it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.So that was the founding of Portable Electric and you're still a board member, but you're not involved day-to-day or what's going on? No. 

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Mark Rabin 15:31

I, I stepped down in, in December, 2023. Um, pretty recent. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was time to, to, to move on. Um, my heart and soul still there. Um, but it's certainly been a journey. Um, because you know, it's, the business becomes a part of you. And then you all of a sudden, you're just like, it's all about, you're identifying this every minute. Is this, you know, this is, this is part of me. And so I actually had to really sort of start to figure out how to remove myself from that and from my identity around that. Um, also COVID, it was a really hard time for any business, right? But especially for a business that was focused on entertainment and film, uh, which, you know, all that no live production stopped right away. And so that was so difficult, but it was, it was time to move on, um, and time to sort of start to figure out what, what was next for me.But it took me a year and a half to figure to start to like, you know, um, my natural default is to go, go, go. And after I came out of that, I literally started to busy myself, like unlimitedly busy. And then I was like, oh, um, I'm like, I'm burnt out here. Like, um, I need to like take a pause and I went hard on flow. So I, so I literally was like, Oh, this is, you know, cause I'm extreme, right? This is extreme. So I was like, okay, well, I'm going to totally just go. The opposite was the opposite of like hustle and a go, go, go. It's like, no, I'm just going to flow. So I did that for a year. I just like, I was like, yeah, I'm going to flow this. I'm going to feel, I'm feel flow. That feels good. That feels good. And then I was like, okay, that's not going to work either. It's too, right? So now what I'm doing actually is I'm, I'm sort of recalibrating to that balance of like, you know, I have to hustle a little bit and you got to flow. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 17:28

So I hope you don't mind me picking on this, but I feel like when you mentioned portable electric and leaving the company, you kind of hinted at something there that sounds like it's a part of a bigger story. But you said that you were trying to figure out how to disintermediate your identity and you had started to identify yourself with the company a lot.Why is that a bad thing? I mean, founders' stories are very much wrapped up in their business, their mission, and it eventually. But why were you experiencing a challenge with that, or was it? 

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Mark Rabin 18:05

I mean, in many ways, like that's why the businesses are started in the first place. Right. I mean, it's like, it's the energy that you put into it. It's the magic. It's the spark. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 18:14

And it's a very strong Eagle right saying I'm gonna do this. Yeah 

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Mark Rabin 18:17

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to put all my money in it and I'm going to bring all these people along and they're going to put their money in it.And you know, like, it's like the train, when the train's leaving the station, right, everybody's jumping on and you're like, this is where we're going. Um, but when that stops happening, right, or for whatever reason, you know, there's, there's business partner challenges, there's partners, there's challenges with the board. Um, everybody's chirping from the back, right? Like, it's like, you have to be pretty strong in your conviction for this business. Um, because everybody's literally trying to take you down, not just like, you know, the market, but you know, as competitors coming in, there's people seeing it. Um, it, it starts to like, where on, you know, it wore on me. And I think at that point, that's when I was like, okay, like it's, it's time to let go, right?It's time to move myself forward because it's kind of like, it's kind of like being in an abusive relationship sometimes. It's like some point you got to leave or you got to like, do that. But it takes a lot of awareness because as entrepreneurs, obviously like the whole point of how we got here is we're just holding on. Right. What's that, that whole thing about it's like the people that succeeded or the people that could like literally hold on the whole time while getting punched in the face. It's kind of like, so that's something that I was like, you know, I was trained to override, right? I think, I don't know, like, you know, trained to override, trained, trained to override, override emotions, override, you know, anything just like keep holding work harder. The shit doesn't work anymore. At least it worked. It's not working anymore for me. Um, and so I think that was all part of this process of, of learning to, to let go and learning to say, say, look, you know what, this thing is its own thing. And I don't need to, I mean, to die, you know, for it. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 20:12

No, I think what you said there about that override isn't working anymore. Um, I think you're right to say that it's not working in general.Uh, I think society where there was probably a period of time when we all existed at sort of some medium level of repression and everybody had it. And so we're all just kind of dealing with each other's, you know, repressed personalities. So when you're meeting somebody, you're not really meeting the person and you're meeting their representative, I guess, of, you know, whoever they're trying to perform. Um, and that was probably a bit more common. And I think in our spaces, there's a lot more authenticity now. And as a result, you can't just override and repress because people will feel it off you. It's seen in your leadership. Um, so 100% agree with that. So, so once you recognize that and you're like, okay, I can't just override this. I'm feeling something here and I need to move beyond it. Uh, what did you move beyond to do? And that was that year, year and a half of. 

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Mark Rabin 21:02

Oh, yeah. I mean, first it was trying to do less. But also like I've had wonderful friends, family, coaches, you know, people that have like really helped me see, you know, different things. Also plant medicine has been, has been helpful over the years as well. And I think that's been something that we're starting to see more and more, right?To sort of reconnect with our bodies, our souls, that feeling of oneness, you know, like, like the feeling of the earth, connecting with the earth. I mean, that's, you know, back to that as well. I mean, I still care about the earth deeply. But also the earth is communicating with us. Right. And I think that we've gotten, why we're in this pickle is because we sort of like humans sort of like dominate right over the earth. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 21:50

It's that override again, but on a societal level. Because the feedback mechanism is telling us everything that we need to know.But it's almost like a civilization level repression happening that we don't want to deal with the feelings that we're creating in the world and the environment around us. So we're just pushing down or repressing and hanging on and thinking that we'll be able to push through somehow. 

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Mark Rabin 22:14

And I mean, it comes from our parents, right? I mean, so like this like being able to like feel your emotions. That was that was nothing. And so it's interesting to sort of be able to to recognize that, not hold it against them.But we, you know, we have to do difference to be different. And also like, you know, how we do our businesses and the authenticity in the businesses, like that's that's all that we have. People don't have to stick around companies anymore. And I think that's a big thing. People, people literally can now work remotely with any company, wherever they don't, if they don't like your company, they don't have to stick around. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 22:49

the only reason to stay would be that I'm enjoying what I'm doing and I'm enjoying the people that I'm doing it with. 

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Mark Rabin 22:53

Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of like been a big part of it. But what's been awesome about the last year is I was able to take time and now very, very blessed, uh, that I, I was able to do it and to sort of go and, and redevelop my own thesis about myself and what I wanted to do, um, and who I want to do it with.And I sort of developed these sort of three, three things that are really important to me when I'm looking at my next projects, my next business, my next people that I'm want to do it with. This is the thesis or

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Mo Dhaliwal 23:26

This is what you're looking at for the top three so 

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Mark Rabin 23:28

So it's number one, the greatest determinant of success is team, right? It's who's with you. So a team, team, team. You're gonna raise money, you're gonna attract people, you're gonna like, your product's gonna be better, people are gonna wanna buy it, right?Number two, it's a clear path to commercialization and profitability. The time of like crazy moonshots and not making money for like 10 years and whatever, like this has to like solve a real pain point and it has to be sustainable, it has to sort of, it has to regenerate itself, it has to make enough money to like sustain operations and get this moving forward. And the other one is like, you know, some sort of defensibility, a clear moat, IP, doesn't have to be traditional stuff, but it has to be something like why is it different? Why do people care about it? And so those are sort of like, that's when I'm measuring all of the opportunities and then enthusiasm, right? I think that's the kind of, you gotta like, someone's like, oh yeah, I work like five hours a week on my startup, I'm like, cool, it's not gonna work. Right, so those are just kind of like how I'm sort of reframing. And then also, one more thing is I actually spent the whole year and a half networking with no agenda. And I know it sounds kind of weird, but like. It's just like making friends, yeah, it sounds like, yeah. Exactly, but you know when you have something that you're always like pushing, you're like trying to raise money, or you have investors, or you're like, I sell my product, I do this, that and that. That's very different than just being like, hey, let's figure out why we're talking. Is there something we can talk about or something we can do, we can move forward with? And all of a sudden from that stems a real relationship, stems like, and that was a big takeaway as well, right? It's just like, yeah, we're just people. There's two people hanging out, but it's all about that purpose, you know? I've also fallen into sort of a bit of a regenerative economics world, because our world is inherently extractive, right? By nature, our economic system is extractive. And so again, these are back to these ideas that that's not gonna fly anymore. It doesn't work anymore. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 25:42

What do we do? So I'm hearing the urgency in your voice when you express that.What's the most frustrating conversation you've had when working with a partner or a team member or maybe even another company where you're trying to explain this to somebody who maybe is working in the same space but perhaps isn't bringing the same urgency and passion to it that you are. 

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Mark Rabin 26:01

I think it's a feeling. It's a feeling and it actually comes down to like values alignment, really at the end of the day.The, you know, and I didn't understand that, obviously, you know, at first, but you know, it's like, it's like, why do you have a, why is your vibe off from a person, right? Or why are you like, you're like, oh, this is kind of like, we're canceling each other out a little bit, or that there's more to it, right? But again, back to the override, you know, traditionally we're like, ah, no, it's okay, maybe they're having a hard day. But no, it's like, you show up every day and you're actually like in this engagement of energy, energetic engagement. And that's something that I've been working on, you know, and feeling that and, you know, like actually letting that come out and being like, oh, okay, it's cool. I don't have to like this person, but I certainly need to steer away from this person, right? That's something that I've been like really, really honing. And it's like a superpower that I really feel really, I feel really good about. But it's knowing, you know, not everybody has the same values and not everybody has the same intentions. Yeah, and that's okay. Yeah, exactly. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 27:06

find somebody that they align with better. So you said you've been following that. Where has that led you? What's your next venture?I mentioned Carbon IP. Is that the majority of your time or are you insulting those drugs? 

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Mark Rabin 27:18

Yeah, so I'm consulting right now. So I mean, sort of venture-ish is the podcast called The Tie-In, which you said in your intro. And this is a passion project with myself and Zena Harris. She's one of the original movers and shakers in sustainability and entertainment. And we've become really great friends. We see eye to eye on everything. And we were like, wow, there's a missing voice here in sustainability and entertainment. That's the sort of the overarching theme of the podcast.And, but it's the tie-in. The tie-in, exactly, right? There's so many different ways you can tie into things. And, but there's all these voices that needed to be heard. So that's one of the projects. Carbon IP, consulting on this incredible technology. We take lignin from trees and we upgrade it to essentially battery-grade graphite, but it's actually hard carbon and activated carbon. So it's like deep material science and it goes into batteries. It's like a circular economy if we're still using that term. Sounds so simple, what a simple business. Exactly. But my real passion is in off-grid infrastructure and renewable energy infrastructure.So I'm helping right now with a friend's company called Hollywood Trucks and incredible technology and doing the most amazing luxury off-grid solar-powered cast and crew trailers for Hollywood film production. Like these things are like space stations. So super awesome. As with a good friend, Andre Champagne. And then I'm currently also incubating another company that's in stealth mode along the same lines, but closer to my background in mobile power. So think big-ass solar generators as well. So that's kind of like, that's all I can say about that right now. But it's pretty exciting to be in those early stages. It's like being in early stages of a relationship, right? You're just kind of like, everything's exciting. Before it gets abusive. Exactly. Well, the whole point is to steer it away, make sure that we all get up out front and get everything out of the table up front, right? I think that's a big takeaway. It's like, let's just put it all out, put it all here. We've all been in businesses before. We've all done things before. Like it's important that we put it all on the table and say like, this is me, this is you, and let's talk about it. So that's how I'm approaching a lot of this stuff right now. But the main thing is around, we need more resilient and dynamic infrastructure to address some of the changing things going on, right? Look at it, look at the wildfires in LA, right? Like this is spurring a whole entire discussion in Los Angeles around how we design communities, resiliency, right? How we rebuild that so it doesn't happen again or that so we can address these things like, which is super cool. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 30:26

See, my concern is, I mean, you would hope that, you know, something so traumatic and devastating would be some sort of transformative moment. My worry is that, uh, there's also this kind of human need for comfort, right? And so often those sorts of cataclysms, even though there's a lot of potential for change there, there's also, you know, this kind of habit and tendency to just kind of reset back to the default of what we had before. So we can take a deep breath and say, ah, okay, we're back to normal and things are the same, right?You know, a more global example would have been like COVID, uh, it was such a strange and interesting opportunity where everything that we thought were the hard and fast rules of how society works. We're just kind of chucked out the window one day. It was like, actually we're just going to print money on it for a while. Nobody work, everybody stay home. Uh, not to say that was sustainable by any means. Uh, but it was such an odd and interesting time to perhaps reset some things and rethink some things, but it was really counterbalanced with, and you could feel it and you could hear it, this need to just kind of reset to the way things were before.So we can feel like things are okay. So even with the LA wildfires, yeah, I mean, there's a moment there to actually do a lot of introspection and to actually think about what we're doing in, in, um, not just the built environment, but how we live. But I just wonder if there's, if that's going to be counterbalanced by this human tendency to want to go back to the default because that's where we're used to. 

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Mark Rabin 31:48

Absolutely, until more pain happens. I think it's, I think humans, like, we're pretty simple. I think we respond to pain. That's it.Like, I don't, I don't think there's much more to it. It's not that complicated. Like until we feel, now there's, now we can plan a hundred years out, we can do this stuff. But I think the general population, unfortunately, has to somehow have some sort of stimulus that, that helps, you know, refocus them. Because otherwise we're not going to do it. Like how many hurricanes have to pass through, you know, the South or anywhere to, for people to be like, oh, okay, you know what? Like maybe, maybe we shouldn't build our McMansion literally on this little piece of sand in Florida. Right?But it's like the, the insurance companies though are going to lead that. Right? They're not going to ensure. So there's going to be these interesting little unintended things that like, okay, great. So now all of a sudden the insurance companies are in the climate resilience business and now we've got to figure out who they're going to like do it. And otherwise they're just going to have to move away. And eventually, you know, people move away or people change or different. So, I mean, people who lived in like, you know, floodplains or by the ocean, like for thousands of years, they built their homes on stilts, right? Or they had like raised homes. Because they knew that every so often things flooded. Yeah. They don't want to feel a pain of that.So you avoid it. Right. So I think we're going to see a lot of innovation come from that. But I do have a funny little tidbit. Like, so I went to New Orleans last December and I was there and the first thing I got into, and this is like, you know, this is a Republican kind of state and like go, go forward America. But the first thing I sit in this Uber driver's car, she starts talking about the flood, right? And how, you know, like how her car was damaged and she had to get a new car and this and that and the other. And then I talked to somebody else, literally like the next day, same thing. They referenced, you know, when they had the, you know, sort of the floods, the hurricane coming through and so on. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I'm having all these conversations about this sort of, you know, environmental and property destruction. But no one's like saying it's climate change or whatever, or whatever, but people are feeling the pain.So, and this is what's interesting is why I kind of, in some ways, although quite Trumpian, changing the way that we're describing some of these things, right? Some people have a diversion to the term climate change. Let's change the word, right? Let's just change how we're talking about this because it's still just people who are feeling the pain. So that's kind of something that I think a lot about right now. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 34:38

Um, do you think, I mean, this is a weird sort of projection, sort of question to ask, but have we felt enough pain to change to that extent or do you think there's a lot more pain coming? Like for the projects that you're excited about and you're involved in, do you see them turning the tide or do you see things getting a lot worse before they get better? 

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Mark Rabin 34:59

Depends on what industry and what region we're at. For example, film, entertainment. Not feeling the pain, necessarily, right? But, I mean, there's different kinds of pain in that film's feeling right now, because obviously the film industry's in a bit of a slump.But they know that they have to do the right thing. Because if we can't make movies and go to festivals and do things without taking a huge crap on the planet, or with taking a, what am I, I was just gonna say that. But the point is, is if we can't make movies without being good stewards of the planet, then what the hell are we doing, right? We need to be able to, that should be like, we should be making every production, every concert series should be done without pollution, plastic waste, et cetera. But, you know, it's hard to sort of like, say that to somebody living in the South, right? Who's just trying to get by. So, I think there's gonna be a lot more pain. So, you know, and it's gonna affect, you know, low-income communities, unfortunately. It's not gonna, the rich people don't feel it. They can move away, they can go away. It doesn't affect their income. They have options. There's also gonna be hundreds of millions, if not billions of environmental refugees moving around the planet, right? And all of a sudden, when you need to leave your land, and you're going into somebody else's land at gunpoint, what happens, right? So, I think we are gonna sort of this, we have to have these struggles. This is a complicated topic that I'm trying to like, you know, be careful in what I'm saying, but it's like, yeah, there's gonna be hundreds of millions, if not billions of people that are gonna feel a lot of pain. And that's gonna be a tipping point. Where's the tipping point? I don't know. Can Americans lead it? Can Europeans lead it? I hope so. I really hope so. But it's gonna mean that, you know, 50 million, 100 million people are gonna have to feel a lot of pain. And it sucks. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 37:06

You know, I heard this comment from somebody out of India, like years ago, you know, and talking about climate change and talking about, you know, sustainability and these sorts of things. And there was almost this kind of interesting, like resentment in the attitude, kind of looking towards the West as having benefited from mass exploitation of the planet for so long. And now that some of these regions had industrialized enough to now begin their arc of exploitation, then feeling like, Hey, it's our turn now to like milk and burn this thing. And now you've got a problem with it.Uh, how dare you? Right. So the attitudes, I think, and you know, this shows up in policy, obviously, but I think the attitudes are pretty far apart as well, uh, because it's almost like a type of, I think from there is almost seen as a type of Western privilege, right? To be an environmentalist or even talking about climate change at all. Um, and so it winds up being like almost like a regional policy issue, whereas the effects are global. Right. Um, I mean, have you dealt with any of that in your work of that sort of difference in attitude and values, I guess, even regionally. 

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Mark Rabin 38:18

Absolutely. It's like you guys had the chance to pollute all your rivers and cut all your trees down and throw plastic everywhere and now it's our turn.But I think that like, well, I mean, look at China. I mean, they're one of the largest producers of renewable energy in the world, right? So they're able to do that. I mean, India, I think I just heard that they just signed like a new trade deal or they're in the process with the US and so on, right? That's going to supercharge things in India as well. But it's like, why not leapfrog, right? Like why not move on, move forward? And that's the opportunity.But yeah, it's pretty bad. We live in this like little utopian world here in North America and Europe, but the reality is when you're struggling, you're trying to get by.But there's like, I mean, plastic pollution is the craziest thing ever, right? Why wouldn't we just help the economies around the world leapfrog and do, you know, get super efficient? I mean, per capita, India's energy consumption is significantly lower, right? I mean, it's like things like that. But I mean, I think we need to help each other out. This is the thing. We have the technology here on the planet to do it today. There's just, you know, I don't know about the political will, but I'm super hopeful.Like I said, I think India, I mean, in building people, right? I mean, it's like, let's, let me figure this out. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 39:42

Well, I mean leapfrogging is an interesting way of thinking about it because of like when a population is properly incentivized and is resourceful enough, like I love the example of mobile phones right in Asia, whereas you had like you know economies in places like Scandinavia for example where they were doing hard line like ADSL and all sorts of things that were you know between telephone and like fiber optic but they've been laying this stuff for for years and so their wired networks were quite incredible but then you go to Asia and you have many countries and technologies exploding and they just didn't have the time investment resources to lay down that much that much line right and you're not going to get that many wired connections so they completely leapfrogged the whole landline sort of thing that we went through and their mobile networks have absolutely kicked the shit out of ours for decades and they continue to there's so much better than our mobile network. 

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Mark Rabin 40:45

Yeah, you hear you drive, like, just a little out of town and you're like, Ah, that's... 

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Mo Dhaliwal 40:48

Oh, my data's gone now. And that's not the case out there.And so I think there's a moment where the technology meets, the population is incentivized, and there's also some sort of constraint that's forcing it. Is there anything specific that you can kind of look at? And you can say, OK, here's a place where there would be a good incentive, and they could just blow past us if they just chose a different route. 

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Mark Rabin 41:14

Yeah, I mean, it's already happening. So to your point, in terms of energy and decentralized and distributed energy, solar and batteries, like all over Africa, India, they're there. They're already starting to.So the cell phone led the way with those networks, micropayments, microfinancing, et cetera, the Grameen Bank, et cetera. Now you can sort of do the microfinancing. That actually spurred on this energy revolution. So now, all of a sudden, there was this pay-as-you-go energy that you could now finance, a small little solar and battery system. So the way that you're going to electrify all these crazy places on the planet is exactly like this. It's a distributed generation. Every house is going to have its little solar panel and a little battery. You're going to have efficient appliances. It's starting.It's already been going on for the last decade. So I think you're going to see a lot of those parallels. It's also going to be around resiliency. So it's happening. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 42:21

what do you think the greatest friction will be like? Is it really just political will? Really? 

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Mark Rabin 42:26

100% 

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Mo Dhaliwal 42:27

100% yeah, well, okay. Yeah 

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Mark Rabin 42:29

Yep, yep. That's pretty absolute. Yeah, everybody, everybody. I mean, it's, it's like we have the technology. We have abundance of resources. What we actually have is a resource allocation problem.We have unlimited resources on this planet to, to, you know, we, we can make food from, you know, we, there's no shortage of land to, to, you know, make food and energy and so on. But it's a distribution issue. It's a resource issue. You know, it's also cost money to make, to make these things, of course. But I mean, look at, I mean, I just think it, again, back to India, right? I mean, it's like, there's just, India can do anything, it's got all the people. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 43:11

see political will I mean it's interesting to hear I mean it makes sense what you're saying but sometimes we look at progress as a bit of a linear progression and it seems to be a bit more of a spiral right I mean you look at Canada right in our market I'm not sure how effective they work so I'm not right up on the topic but like the the carbon tax hmm right and we've just gone through a period of enough economic uncertainty some amount of you know existential threat externally and that was enough sort of nervousness there was enough pain on the economic side felt by population that basically led to the scrapping of what was you know I think a pretty productive program to to limit pollutants so what do you do it when I you know even a country like Canada that you think would be progressive on these issues is like moving in the right direction takes what appears to be like a massive step backwards

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Mark Rabin 44:10

Well, Canada is a different, a different ballgame. You know, keep in mind, we're still basically the whole entire economy is predicated on a primary resource extraction. And that's been it since the inception of Canada since before Canada, um, when colonial folks came here 500 years ago. So that's been the whole premise. So we're still stuck in that. That's why we're lacking innovation. That's why we're not able to like get to that next levels because we're still just like mine it, cut it down, fish it and sell it before we upgrade it. So I think that's one of the challenges that we have here in Canada is it's, it's actually stifling innovation and stifling our ability to like get to that next level.Our problems are not one party political. They're systemic throughout the entire culture of, of our country. In terms of the attacks, I mean, it's just what I, I think calling it a tax probably was the wrong move, but you know, even the oil companies, they want to know, they're happy to play a part in it. They just need to know what the game is and what the goalposts are and where those incentives or disincentives are, are going. I don't think, I don't think Canadians understand like what's, what's really happening here because if we want to be competitive on a global market, we want to sell products to, to Europe, we have to, to sort of understand our carbon footprint. We've got to understand, you know, what we're doing here. Cause those days of Canada, just like, right? Just, you know, I don't know, what do you call it? Just rock and roll in it and not worrying about it or over. Like we can't, you know, we want to sell that advanced countries in Asia and Japan. So I think, I think it's a probably an astute political move, you know, but there's always going to be some sort of incentive and disincentive structure around addressing polluting, right? Look at the Montreal protocols. That was one of the most successful cap and trade things ever to be done. And it was around ozone layer. If you remember, right, there was, there was an ozone layer and it was a CFCs from refrigerants and the globe got together and was like, Hey, look, and did it. Yeah. So if there's, if climate change or whatever the hell we're calling it in cap and trade and taxes and this and that, whatever we're calling it, it's all just an exercise in trying to get the global governments together to have some frigging political will to make this change happen. So I, I don't get caught up in like whatever, whatever the calling it, it's that we still suck at getting together. Look at COP, whatever it is now, look how they come up with like nothing. There's nothing happening. And so that's kind of what, what irks me is like, we still can't even work together on this planet as one, you know, sort of like humanity to figure these out. And until we do, until we, you know, like we're, we're screwed. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 47:20

So maybe the pain has to be at that level. You know, I think humanity is quite amazing when we face a existential external threat, then it's unity.I mean, we, we saw that just with this little, um, I mean, I guess it was a threat, uh, but the whole, you know, 51st state, the U S and Canada thing, but that was enough to do it, right? Like there's, there's no, no real moves have been made beyond the tariffs, but that was enough for people to just get their backs up and suddenly like Canadian nationalism is like back. It's cool again, right? Like the, the freedom pond boy, I kind of like that up for a little bit. But now suddenly waving a Canadian flag was cool again. 

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Mark Rabin 47:57

Even the Quebecers are like, okay, we can get behind this. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 48:00

completely. It was wild. So that was pretty quick. But again, it was a, you know, an external threat and promise of pain. And that's what did it.But it was interesting here you talk about, you know, the economy in Canada, because you're talking about resource extraction, almost like a bit of a drug that we're hooked on. And, and that's actually preventing us from, you know, going out and doing many other things that we could be doing. But the prevailing attitude, I think, economically and politically today is that we haven't done enough resource extraction in Canada that actually we should have gone to town on whatever we could do for drilling for oil, for minerals, for, you know, lumber, like you name it, that actually across the board, we've been too limited in this fashion. I agree. And that's the moment we're in now. 

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Mark Rabin 48:49

I 100% agree with that. Like we have the resource endowment. Why not be good stewards of that resource, but also the planet wants it. So let's gear it in the right direction.Yeah, I'm not against any of that. I'm not even against the oil business per se, but why not make our business as resilient as possible? Why not make it, you know, if we are gonna be selling, we're still in oil age, even though Sheik Yamani, you know, he was right with the, you know, his statement there about the oil. Stone age. Stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones. Yeah, the oil age won't end because we ran out of oil, but it's like Europe still wants it. Asia still wants it. People still need it.Why not make our energy corridors as efficient as possible? You know, why not? Why not? I mean, this is the whole thing, right? Why not use our resources? Our challenge is why not upgrade them here?You know, I just attended a bioeconomy conference last few days here in your NBC. You know, it's about our forestry and there's so many things you can make from forest products and you can make everything from like medicines to like high value products and plastics and batteries and incredible stuff. Yet we don't upgrade any of our forestry products here. We barely do the Nordic countries who have like 5 million people in each country have 10X more innovation than we do, right? Think about that. And then you've got like, we've got to build all these houses, right? Okay, we need to build millions of houses and dwellings and so on, whatever we're calling it. We have all the resources here, right? Like to me, like this is the greatest opportunity for Canada that's existed. So why not create, we've got empty mills, entire sitting here, right?Because the palm paper industry kind of left. Yeah, on the exports, right? So why not refurbish these mills into like building materials, advanced building materials. I mean, this is kind of like, this is what blows my mind is like, but yet the government is still struggling to figure out how to do this, but yet the entrepreneurs are ready to go, right? This is now sort of, you know, waiting into the more politics side of things, but it's like,

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Mo Dhaliwal 51:04

I was actually just going to ask, have you ever thought that politics or political life might be a way for you to affect change to the extent that you're talking? 

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Mark Rabin 51:13

I can make more change happen through business right now. Yeah. I would say like for the moment, it's just like, it's all the, it's the business folks. Like when I started portable, I remember I went to the city of Vancouver, Vancouver economic commission, and they had said, we've been waiting for this. And it created a whole sort of like chain reaction around changing the bylaws around city parks and generators. Right? And in the whole Metro Vancouver area, and then all of a sudden the film industry, right? So just from starting a business that made that change happen.It created those ripples, yeah. Right? Now, if someone called me up one day and it was like, hey, do you want to be the energy and innovation minister? I'd be like, oh, that's interesting. Fair enough. Right? But also I think there's nothing sadder than being a career politician, you know? And so... 

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Mo Dhaliwal 52:08

I mean, it doesn't sound like you're directing that shot at anybody, but I think it landed really well. 

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Mark Rabin 52:14

I mean, it's just like it is what it is, right? You got to go out and make your own place in the world 

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Mo Dhaliwal 52:21

things work to a large extent, right? And that's only done if you're playing in the world. 

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Mark Rabin 52:24

sit at the table of various industries and business deals, you're only as good as your last table that you've sat at where you're like, okay, this is what's going on. Or having those conversations behind closed doors, like everything's happening behind closed doors.But yeah, no, I really believe in Canada. It's just like, sometimes it's like, it feels like it's an embarrassment of riches, right? We have all this talent, these young people, everybody I know that's Canadian, like we can sing, write, dance and produce, we're good, we're good people. But we're probably a little too comfortable and we're just, yeah, and the government's not truly stepping up in some ways, right? 

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Mo Dhaliwal 53:06

So from like your education to industry and everything that you've talked about, I mean, I think your perspective on where change needs to come from is pretty fascinating. I'm really curious about like, as you kind of walked through all of this, like what, what have you learned about yourself and like your own leadership and how you, how you show up and do this?Oh man. What's, what surprised you from the early days of oil and gas until now where you look back and you go, Oh wow, I didn't, I didn't realize that was a part of me. 

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Mark Rabin 53:37

Well, I think it's the, well, you mean it's this ability to feel and listen, you know, to, to my internal guiding system and in my body, you know, because that's what I was saying back to that conversation about override. Uh, I was the best. I still kind of am in some ways, but I can't do it anymore at the override, right? Cause like, I can get shit done. Um, I can work 24 hours straight if I have to, like I can do it. But is that really gonna, that really what needs to happen?Um, so for me, it was around, it was on like sort of really being able to be vulnerable, to be intuitive and to listen to that and to make action around that. Like that's really what it is. Like this is an interesting thing. Like, so I, when I was on my last, when I left portable in December, 2023, I put together this really beautiful, heartfelt slideshow of all the old photos. Like I, cause I have documented everything and all of their original team and the first products, the first shop. And I put this really beautiful slideshow together, calling, calling people who, you know, sort of shining a light on the early folks and telling stories. And people were in tears, you know, people were in tears. And it was like, because I was just leading from, you know, with my heart and sharing these like stories and so on.Right. Versus like, you know, again, that sort of, yeah, a leader who's not doing that. Right. And I think that's like, people will get in line, people will follow if you're honest and true and you know, from the heart and without that, like, I don't, I don't think a business is going to succeed in this modern time. Yeah. There's old school stuff, right? But new school, new school businesses, like be human, be human, but also people will follow if you're honest with them. Right. Like you can't pull a fast one anymore. Not with glass door or not with, you know, everybody knows this is again, back to that whole thing, Leonard Cohen, he had it. He knew it. Right. Everybody knows, right. So it's like, we can't, there's no hiding anymore. And I think that's, that's kind of where we're at. You've got this, we've got these two, two polls, right? One that's sort of like trying to hide and trying to still hold on to power and one that's like, you know, we, we got to like re re-imagine how we're doing this. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 56:07

So, Mark, if people want to learn more about you and everything that you're doing, where should they go? 

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Mark Rabin 56:13

Well, first, the tie-in. We actually do this fun little intro banter, Zina and I, so they get to know a little bit about our lives as well. And we have interviews, incredible guests that really challenge us and expand our view of the world. So that's the Tie-In Podcast, www.tieinpodcast.com. And you can find that on all the different Spotify, iTunes, and YouTube. And then myself, you can find me on LinkedIn, Mark Rabin on LinkedIn, Instagram, Geez, Facebook. Does anybody still use that? Yeah, I'm just around. Reach out to me. I love connecting with folks and I love jamming on ideas and innovation. Not just energy technology, but social innovation. I'm really spending a lot of time thinking about regenerative economics, the world of just the regenerative world. There's a whole movement afoot. This amazing woman named Jenny Stefanati and this podcast called Denizen, D-E-N-Z-I-N, incredible podcast on just the world of the regenerative world is becoming denizen.com. So, you know, there's like just so many amazing communities and sub communities out there right now that are making real change happen and that are figuring this out. So for me, that's what that's what keeps me going is knowing that that we're working on this mega project together with folks like yourself. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 57:53

I was going to say and I can vouch for your openness to connect because we reached out and you jumped on it So yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you for doing this.Well, thanks for coming on man

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Mark Rabin 58:01

My pleasure. 

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Mo Dhaliwal 58:04

Well, hopefully we've given you a lot to think about. That was High Agency. Like and subscribe and we will see you next time. 

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